Privacy question

Hi,

I do like your phone and the philosophy behind it. but I have an unanswered question in my mind. You claim to be pricacy minded. but how can the device be that while using SMS and call over the open networks?

I get that enabling the modem part would increase power consumption and possibly let us adicts out on the internet again. :wink: but in my world i would not call SMS and phone service a secure form of communication.

By implementing a simplified signal protocol based client you could achieve that “more secure” communication. but i guess it could be a hardware issue with encryption/decryption?
Could you shed some light on what you define as privacy with the phone? (is it just escaping the google/apple backdoors?)

I am currently looking for a new dumbphone to kick my smartphone habit, and so far I have only found one dumbphone that offers limited access to the signal protocol. Even though your design with the e-ink display and the simple OS really appeals to me, I think secure encrypted coms is a must these days.

Sorry for the rant, but could you enlighten me with regards to this? Thanks! :slight_smile:

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I think the main priority was to keep the phone “offline” (understand that as “without the ability to connect to the Internet”, not "completely disconnected, thus unusable as a phone :smiley: ") and the second thing on the list is privacy (open-sourcing the OS, full control over your information, no tracking from Big Tech).

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Privacy from Google, Apple, and Big Tech. The Mudita Pure is not looking for encryption or security in that form, but just a return to Simple forms of communication. A signal protocol would require some internet access from the OS and that’s not possible with the current implementation.

What I’d do in your case is: Get the Mudita for being simple and then use Signal or whatever encrypted app you prefer and use it on Desktop/Tablet.

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Yea, I see your point.

but having to keep a smartphone around to achieve that is not a good solution in my mind… maybe i need to look further. It is too bad that nobody has made a secure device which also has a low impact on the user.

Thanks anyway :slight_smile:

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@jostein As @Jose_Briones stated, the ethos behind Mudita Pure is centered around the freedom to be offline and enjoying life without the constant disruptions & notifications that come from smartphones, while still being able to reach out & contact people. Additionally, as Jose pointed out, we are more focused on privacy and security from BIG TECH because those companies live off aggregating, storing, and exploiting our data for profit- Location data, message data, search data, purchase data, etc.
Yes, SMS messages & phone calls are not encrypted or 100% secure, but for us, it’s more about simplifying the connections between people.

Punkt MP02 (both New and Original editions) support Signal using a client app Pigeon. Some bugs still need to be fixed, but overall it seems like a nice package. You could check out some reviews on Youtube, maybe even from @Jose_Briones :wink:

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@john_dumpling One thing I have some questions about when it comes to the privacy of MP02 is the fact that the MP02 runs a stripped-down version of Android 8.1- which is essentially a Google product- the same Google which monetizes what it observes about people. :persevere:

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The OP highlights the classic issue where security and privacy are often confused. They do overlap a lot, but are still different issues.
The distinction gets even worse when you consider your threat model.
The Pure, used by an individual that is not the subject of targeted surveillance by the government or another similar organisation, and connected to a trustworthy and ethical cell carrier (who doesn’t spy on their customers) would be a very private device.
Even if connected to an unscrupulous cell carrier, run by marketing resellers, the Pure would still be a more private device than an Android or Apple one, because at least only the cell-carrier would be doing the spying.
Signal might be a very secure protocol, and a Pure supporting Signal would indeed be much more private, but do bear in mind that if you are running Signal on an Apple or Android device, you only have as much privacy as your cell phone manufacturer and all their third-party bundled apps allow. A device running Signal is only as private and secure as the weakest link in the chain, which will be all those “free” apps and “analytics” cool features compromising your device.
Food for thought - Everyone will need to analyse for their own specific case.

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@forest_cat I’m in total agreement with you. Privacy & security are often confused & they mean different things to different people. I like Mudita Pure because it’s a generally private device. My every moved is not tracked & monetized by a BIG TECH company, the way it is with Android, Apple & Google. Plus, it’s not a distracting device.

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I thought that the Punkt had a de-googled version of Android (no Google Services included). But I can’t verify my claim.

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@john_dumpling DeGoogled maybe, but it’s still a Google product, since ANDROID is owned by Google. I look at it the same way I look at whatsapp & Facebook. They may be two different services, but they are both owned by Meta (formally known as FB)

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Android is not “owned” by Google, but rather it is an open-source project funded by Google. The Punkt runs a de-googled version of Android 8.1. They have removed all of the Google proprietary material and only kept the open-source code.

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@Jose_Briones Thanks for the clarification.

Yet another privacy invasion by Big Tech that Pure users get to avoid:

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@kirkmahoneyphd That’s just going a bit over the line, in my opinion. I do wonder how many people will take advantage of this option. In Poland, you don’t even need to carry your Driver’s License, car registration & proof of Insurance with you. Police have access to all of it from their system.

Police in the UK can get your driver’s licence, insurance, vehicle-tax, and MOT (annual safety-check) details straight from their numberplate-recognising cameras too. No need to carry or remember any of this information yourself anymore. I do, just in case of system failure, but it’s probably not necessary.

We still have credit-card style driver’s licences over here (like in EU), but I wonder for how long. Similarly, coronavirus vaccination/immunity proof was phone-based and required an Apple or Android smartphone and a closed-source, proprietary app. Fortunately, there was a way to get a paper letter (which is what I did and encouraged family members to do), but it was a cumbersome and not well-publicised process (which I think was a deliberate attempt to force people into downloading the app instead). I doubt this will be offered as an option in the future, but live in hope.

At a concert last year, I witnessed someone with a malfunctioning phone (I’m not sure if the battery was flat or they had no data) who was unable to gain entry because both their ticket and their coronavirus pass were on their smartphone. I think I read of another similar story on these forums too. People just don’t realise what unnecessary overreliance on a single device can do.

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@forest_cat I have a paper Covid Green Pass with a QR code. I refused to download the app & got the paper versions. It’s actually quite easy in Poland. The health authority lets you download it online or you can get it printed at any testing/vaccination place.
I also had an experience with a friend’s phone dying & her not being able to enter a venue despite having tickets because she was not able to prove her health status. I just whipped out my paper certificate. However, I didn’t go to the event because my friend was left standing outside in February COLD- so that was the end of our excitement.

For those who do not want to keep a smartphone and still be on Signal (and want to risk using the command line on a computer :wink: … with guides and explanations available, but a bit more technical):
You can actually run Signal from computer only using signal-cli (that’s how I have done it for quite a while now with my old Nokia phone: sms on phone, Signal on Computer.
Efficient and liberating :wink:

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@flix-b_4140 Thanks for this tip. I kinda use Whatsapp like this. It works for me.