Why do so many potential backers want the Pure to work like a smartphone?

MuditaOS is based on FreeRTOS.

Which -as far as i can see - is superior to Linux in terms of security as it has a smaller Kernel and Codebase.
However, it is also more “niche” in the sense that you cannot easily port existing Linux solutions to FreeRTOS. I can only assume developing for FreeRTOS might be slightly different from Linux.
However, with the Codebase being small and the Documentation excellent from what I have seen so far, it might me easier to get into.

So with MuditaOS now becoming OpenSource, there is nothing stopping you from implementing a Webbrowser or individual “Webapps” that run on WebKit.

I’m not sure how much free memory and processing power is left with the OS idling in the background, but that’s a problem that just screems “trial and error” to me.

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Yeah, the main reason I lean towards the Linux kernel here a little really comes down to being able to take advantage of some of the pre-existing tools out there for that. Linux phones are really starting to kick into development right now, and that means pre-existing open source codebase and UI to build off of. Jumpstart it for a more “complex” device, as opposed to the more simplistic RTOS.

But how far RTOS can be pushed is something I’m curious about, especially as I’m exploring laptop concepts (where Linux has even more of my attention already just due to a couple of writing apps I absolutely adore). I’m no software developer, so I can’t speak to where that can be taken.

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@blennemann , Pure has enough memory to run MuditaOS as it was designed - minimalistic. We don’t plan to put a web browser in our OS but since it’ll be open source - if someone wants it, can code it.
As for security - Linux & FreeRTOS are completely based on completely different principles. Our OS is only based on FreeRTOS but isn’t compatible with Linux.

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Look up on internet something called “streaming music player”. (I would have put a link to one such player but don’t want to promote anything on here). It’s basically like smartphone but you can only have music streaming/playing applications like spotify, amazon music etc. And those are not expensive. You can find them for $100-$150.

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@alexlya That’s a an excellent suggestion. We love hearing all your ideas. Also, most audiobook streaming services are compatible with many e-readers/tablets. Since most podcasts come in MP3 format, they can be uploaded to the Mudita Pure. @John_Higginbotham Hope this info helps. :slight_smile:

Makes perfect sense to me.

I am very close to pre-ordering a Pure (just waiting for some extra phones to open up).

I agree - I want the Pure to simply work like the pure - Disconnected, allowing the ability to be connected to the rest of the world, as we all should be.

With that being said:

  • Navigation: Most modern vehicles have this built-in via subscription service. There’s also the option to buy an external GPS (Garmin, TomTom, etc).
  • Camera: There are far too many options nowadays for something like that.

I think this phone is inherently ‘smart’ in what it leaves out - All of the ‘features’ that keep us all addicted to smartphones.

I truly accept that I have a smartphone addiction, and the Pure is a good answer to removing that/living a simpler, disconnected life. It’s exciting know that it’ll most likely promote a positive experience amongst my friends/family to do the same (I have been sharing my personal journey from being addicted to social media to leaving social media, and now in the process of leaving Google services/removing my Google account & also subsequently ending my relationship with smartphones).

Looking forward to this, folks! Thanks for doing what you do.

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@anon13781037 Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. We’re glad to hear that you’re trying to live a more digitally mindful lifestyle & we’re really excited that you’re considering the Mudita Pure as part of your journey. You’ve made some very valid points when it comes to GPS/navigation & cameras. Personally, I live a “two-phone” lifestyle in order to curb my time online & live a more digitally mindful lifestyle. I use a smartphone for work & an ancient Blackberry for the times when I want to disconnect, but still be reachable. I’ve been doing this for a few years now & I’ve noticed that I don’t even miss all those time-consuming apps. Through this, I’ve been able to keep my time online under control. I’m patiently waiting for the time when I can get my hands on a PURE, until then, my vintage BlackBerry will have to do :blush: Again, thank you for input & kind words. I’m sure you’ll love using the Mudita Pure phone.

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I think the design for the phone is perfect. I hope Mudita keeps it extremely basic. I am looking forward to having a phone that is only for talk/text/alarm/flashlight and the few other options that may come with it. I am also looking forward to using my road atlas again when i need to travel someplace unfamiliar. Let’s use our brains again! Can’t wait to get the new phone!

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@Missy_Painter Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. I’m on the same page as you! I also think the Mudita Pure is PERFECT :upside_down_face: :wink: I think paper maps are awesome! I still have one in my car! Thank you for choosing Mudita Pure as part of your journey towards a more digitally mindful lifestyle. :slight_smile: We really appreciate it!

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Mudita Pure have a lot of things that I like a lot. For example I like a lot e-ink screen to don’t suffer blue light, I like battery life, but above all I like privacy.

It is true that gps only receive satellite signal and don’t send anything, but having that hardware in the mobile make possible to send my position to third party.

Okey, I know, I read the Mudita manifests and I trust in Mudita but if gps chip does not exists inside mobile, I will be happier…

Maps is a feature that we use from time to time, but if you need to use gps all the time, so I would buy a Garmin gps. On other hand, I am not sure that having maps with e-ink screen is a good idea, but if you change to another technology for screen, we will lose the blue light protection and battery life. I want a mobile with maintain me connected with intention. but giving me privacy and battery autonomy. However, being able to use it as a HotSpot is amazing to provide you some connectivity with your laptop from a cafe shop.

This is just my opinion, but I would like Mudita Pure to don’t become an iPhone.

Thanks for your attention.

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@jmgv Thank you for taking the time to write to us. We value your opinion and feedback.

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This is the best sentence I have ever read!
Also thank you for such a huge support! We all really appreciate that. :slight_smile:

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All I want in this phone is a phone. The computer app for texting (Mudita Center) is the perfect balance. A warm colored flashlight is an extra to me, but still appreciated. If I wanted any app on the phone, I’d go use an iPhone. Maps are a privacy invasion; e-mailing is a distraction; music that I could hear in the car (via bluetooth) would be a bonus (never a streaming service, though - just unnecessary when I own the music), but not even close to a dealbreaker. There are certain useful apps, but not anything I want to carry around. I understand the philosophy of “feature X is a convenience”, but humanity lived for years without cell phones.

I had a bar phone in 2003. I didn’t text, just phone calls. It did have snake on it, and I thought “why the heck would I play a game on a phone?” Basically the same with any app. Why would I need this with me all the time?

Side note, off topic: I really appreciate the fact that this is not Linux-based. I won’t criticize Linux here; I just like other kernels, and a real-time OS seems to make perfect sense.

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I have been using KaiOS since Oct 2019. KaiOS has been somewhat a pain to use, strangely enough the basic phone functions is what’s frustrating, organizing and searching the contacts, texting, answering calls etc. At the moment I’m enduring the situation while waiting on the Mudita release.

A few observations made during the switch from a smartphone:
A few minutes of planning before going outside is usually all what I need. A healthier way of doing things instead of always try solving things on the run, at least for me. If I need a map, I grab a usually free paper map, sure, KaiOS has Google maps but I rarely use it.
Regarding the dreaded FOMO issue, “so much interesting info and conversations” I will never see… I just have to say, stay calm!
I quickly realized after the switch that I’m not as important as I thought… not even close.

Told all my friends and workmates that texting is the only option, so if you want to pass information or contact me, use SMS. The result?
99% of the phone time disappeared with the notifications.
So, the conclusion for me is that only 1% of my daily interaction with others actually had to do with me or was even directed towards me with the expectation of me reading and reacting to it.
Well, that was just a few personal thoughts.
Have a great 2021 and good luck with the release!

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Just to add my perspective, as someone who works with teens and young adults (in the US) group messaging is absolutely necessary so I hope it comes to Mudita. I need to be able to message another adult in edition to the young adults I am working with to ensure the children’s safety. Not having group messages would make this impossible and would hamper my use of the device.

I’ll also add that SMS is not used by a lot people anymore, a lot of people have moved on to other platforms for various reasons. While I agree that we don’t want a plethora of apps on the device I do feel including as many messaging apps as possible would just help facilitate communications more easily. My understand of the device is a device strictly for communication, which I think is great and the main reason I want this phone. But, without more than SMS communicating with others will be tricker. While I agree those other apps are damaging we can’t expect others to change their behavior just because we choose to do so. We need to meet people where they are. To me, that means
including as many message apps as possible.

I would be happy with full group message support but having the option to intentionally choose to install, WhatsApp, signal, Line, Discord, Facebook Messenger, etc. would be a huge win and would probably help adoption. I don’t think that brings the device into smartphone territory but recognizes that how we communicate has changed.

I could also suggest taking the approach Light has with their Lightphone 2. Additional features like podcasts, music, calculator, are all added via a computer. This way those who want barebones can have it and those who want additional features can have their cake too. I would trust the folks at Mudita to decide what is most intentional and only create those tools. Beyond a calculator and podcasts I don’t see a need for much else personally, but optional features could bridge the gap for folks that are trying to simplify. Most addicts don’t quit cold turkey, whether it’s chantix, or methadone there are options for afflicts to step-down gradually. It might be nice if Mudita could serve that niche as well.

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It’s interesting to me that there seems to be two camps in this. Users who are already in the disconnected frame of mind, and users who want to be in the disconnected frame of mind. The disagreement seems to be about whether we believe that Mudita (and dumbphone makers more broadly) is responsible for assisting us along the journey to digital sobriety.

Should Mudita take up the task of being the guide, the “accountability partner” in the proverbial 12 step program, or should they simply provide the end product?

I believe, at this juncture for such a small company, it should absolutely remain the latter.

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I agree.
Beeing connected or not, is a personal decision and has to stay that way.
Why?
Well, for any radical decision (which beeing disconnected IS in these times) to be successful over a longer period of time without feeling miserable,
has to be motivated by personal conviction, not persuasive influence or peer pressure.
What Mudita and others could do is making the user experience of the device as smooth as possible. Having to spend x4 the time on a feature phone sending a sms compared to a smartphone defies the purpose of why you made the switch in the first place.

As an individual, a great way to encourage others to take control and managing their time, instead of focusing on potential hazards with excessive phone use, is to point to creativity and hobbies.
I picked up calligraphy, which has been extremely useful during the pandemic as it turns out. Never has a hand written letter to friends and family made such a difference.

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I would agree that a device shouldn’t be dictating behavior (that is precisely why we would leave our smartphone behind). But I don’t see the inclusion of additional ways to message as counter to the mission of the device. I see the device as a way to be less digitally distracted but still connected. Including WhatsApp just makes communication with others easier to negotiate. My understanding of much of the world outside the US is that WhatsApp is the go-to for communication, not SMS.

What I think is going on here is some what the device to be barebones based on what used to be considered barebones (SMS and calls) while others want the device to be able to communicate in a more modern way (group messages, WhatsApp, etc). I don’t think either is necessarily wrong but I think options would be great, especially since their is an app for a PC that could be used to cover figure the device.

My hope is that Mudita Pure could be something more than niche for those who want to disconnect entirely. Right now, there is no such product for those users. Think about the young adults you know, they won’t give up certain features of their phone even though they should for the sake of their physical and mental well-being. I would like those types to be able to buy this phone and not be ostracized by their peers (let’s not pretend that won’t happen) but to do that they need certain modern communication tools. That’s why I suggest their inclusion as optional, to expand the reach of the device and Mudita’s mission.

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It is also the same peer pressure that will keep people from using this device. Young adults would likely be ostracized if they are not able to be part of their friend’s WhatsApp group or whatever they choose to use.

I am sure you’re aware of what looks people give those who still use dumb phones. I wouldn’t expect that to change. Yes, to a point you don’t need to care what others think of you but you do need to be able to still interact with modern society in some capacity. I don’t think SMS alone is going to cut it for very long. With the development of RCS messaging, eventually SMS won’t be utilized. Better to look at the problem with an open mind now then when it becomes too late.

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I would definitely know, and I have sympathy - I was one of those people at 28! I wasn’t ostracized, per say, but the pushback was surprising in its intensity. Eventually, however, everyone realized that I was set in my ways and those who cared about me met me in the middle.

For the Gen Z crowd, of which I know there are plenty interested in disconnecting (check out Reddit’s “nosurf” sub), they face a much more hostile reception for sure.

But I think we overestimate how many people use proprietary messaging systems - at least in my non-immediate social circle, which I can say number in the hundreds, SMS and MMS are still the gold standard. Now, how Mudita et all decide to respond to the movement away from those technologies on a structural scale is up to them, but to say that the future is in closed-source proprietary software I think is a little premature.

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